Iryna Papusha Took Part in the Aspen Executive Leadership Seminar by Aspen Institute France
From September 4 to 6, Aspen Institute Kyiv alumna Iryna Papusha — Chair and member of supervisory boards of Ukrainian and international companies, corporate governance lecturer, and President of the international community Women Leaders for Ukraine — took part in the Aspen Executive Leadership Seminar “The Future of Governance: Freedom, Democracy, and the Uses of Power,” organised by Aspen Institute France in Annecy.
The seminar focused on questions of freedom, democracy, power, and responsibility. For Iryna, one of its most valuable aspects was the international composition of the group and the opportunity to see just how differently people shaped by different historical and social experiences can understand the same concepts.
“After more than four and a half years of full-scale war, Ukrainians no longer speak about freedom, dignity, the state, war, and responsibility in purely theoretical terms. And then you sit down at the same table with people from other countries and suddenly see just how differently we understand the same words.
Some positions were surprising. Some were frightening. Some were a sobering counterpoint to our Ukrainian heroic optimism.”
One of Iryna’s key observations was how profoundly decades of peace and prosperity have shaped European perceptions of threats. For many countries, viewed from today’s historical perspective, the experience of the First and Second World Wars — even when it involved surrender — was ultimately followed by a path towards prosperity.
As a result, the question “Are you prepared to defend your country?” may receive a very different answer from the one a Ukrainian might expect.
“What struck me particularly during the discussions was how natural a certain logic seemed to some participants: young people should be the ones to fight, because that was the case during the First and Second World Wars; people are not prepared to send their own children to war — they would rather surrender to save their lives; personal life, individual freedom, and well-being become more important than the freedom of the state.”
In this context, Iryna found Benjamin Constant’s 1819 essay “The Liberty of Ancients Compared with that of Moderns” unexpectedly relevant today.
Constant draws a fundamental distinction between the liberty of the ancients — the citizen’s participation in political life and the defence of the state — and modern liberty, which increasingly centres on individual independence, security, and private life. At the same time, he warns of a danger inherent in modern liberty: absorbed in private life and personal interests, people may too readily relinquish both the defence of their state and their political influence over it.
For Iryna, this question today extends far beyond a philosophical construct:
“For a Ukrainian today, this is no longer a philosophical construct. It is a very practical question: can my personal freedom exist if I am not prepared to defend the state that guarantees it?”
Another text that particularly resonated with Iryna was Thucydides’ “Melian Dialogue.” During the seminar, participants explored it through a debate between two groups representing the Athenians and the Melians. For Iryna, this became almost a “laboratory experiment in power”: an opportunity to observe how a person’s arguments change depending on which side they represent — the stronger or the weaker.
The Athenians effectively propose removing the question of justice from the negotiations and proceeding from the actual balance of power: the strong do what their power allows, while the weak are forced to reckon with what is left to them. The Melians appeal to justice, freedom, allies, and their right not to submit.
“This discussion gave me another lens through which to understand how major powers may shape their negotiating positions on the war in Ukraine: values matter, but power changes the very architecture of negotiations. What is a question of justice and existence for the weaker side may be viewed by the stronger side primarily as a question of risks, resources, and possible compromise.”
In Iryna’s view, it is critically important for Ukrainians today to be present in international intellectual communities like these. Not only to speak about Ukraine or engage with those who already support it, but also to understand how our partners think and what historical experiences shape their decisions.
“We need to understand how our partners think. What historical experiences shape their decisions. What freedom, security, war, compromise, and responsibility mean to them. Where solidarity ends and personal interest begins. And from that understanding, we need to explain the Ukrainian position, make the case for it, engage in difficult conversations, and build alliances.”
As Iryna notes, support for Ukraine is shaped not only in government offices and parliaments. It is also shaped in universities, businesses, professional communities, the media, and civil society — through conversations between people.
This is why the international presence of Aspen Institute Kyiv alumni is particularly valuable today. It is important for Ukrainians to be part of these conversations — to listen, understand different perspectives, explain the Ukrainian experience, and foster a deeper understanding of Ukraine.
“Allies are made when people begin to understand why freedom is not an abstraction for us — and why losing it carries a cost that cannot be measured solely in comfort, money, or even short-term security.”
We thank Iryna Papusha for sharing her experience and Aspen Institute France for creating the opportunity for this conversation. For us, it is important that Ukrainian voices are heard wherever people with different experiences come together to explore what freedom, democracy, and responsibility mean today. For Ukraine, these concepts ceased to be merely subjects for discussion long ago — they are tested against reality every day.
