Pavlo Klimkin: in Russia, there is a purely fascist regime with a clear focus on the past

Pavlo Klimkin was the Minister for Foreign Affairs of Ukraine from 2014 to 2019. He was a speaker at the fourth #UkrainianDialogue that Aspen Institute Kyiv held with Aspen Institute New Zealand. Pavlo spoke about his professional experience in negotiations with Russia.

The war simply started as a fundamental willingness and commitment from Putin to destroy Ukraine

Pavlo said that the main reason for the Russian aggression against Ukraine was not about NATO but the Russian imperial view on the country:

— Why is the war happening? It was not about NATO enlargement, NATO membership, or any security guarantees. The war simply started as a fundamental willingness and commitment from Putin to destroy Ukraine, its statehood and anything considered Ukrainian – including the history and language. People around Putin see Ukraine as a part of Russia but somehow infected with a Western virus. Our success and being close neighbors are  fundamental problems for the Russian regime. 

If you compare modern Russia with Italy in the previous 20th century, you will find a lot of similarities 

Pavlo underlined that modern Russia has more similarities with fascist regimes than modern countries, even those who are not considered to have democratic governments. He noticed that this country still live with the illusions of their imperial past and dreams about returning to the days of the Soviet Union:

— The Russians, after all these years of propaganda, represent a completely different set of values. These values are not about democracy, rule of law, etc. If you compare modern Russia with Italy in the previous 20th century, you will find a lot of similarities. It is a purely fascist regime with a clear focus on history; creating a sort of myth out of it, having a clear vertical structure with a sort of medieval system of loyalty. The Soviet Union was created exactly 100 years ago — for Putin and the people around him it is alive and he wants to get it back. 

Pavlo stressed that already the Russian regime is far detached from modern democratic civilization and it is not even any type of autocracy but a pure dictatorship: 

— When comparing Russia with China, the latter has a politburo with some people making decisions together. In Russia however, it is only Putin who makes decisions. He has some advisors but the final decision is down to only one person – himself.  

Putin only understands force and respects people acting forcefully

Pavlo said that Putin believes the European Union’s dependence on oil, gas  and other resources gave him a chance to get away with what he wanted. Moreover, he will not stop. The only way to stop Russian aggression is not to compromise but for Ukraine’s military to prevail. This is the reason why all the democratic world must urgently and systematically help Ukraine:

— The only serious negotiations would start from the point when we would have a military deadlock. The simple phrase: “We are with you and the fate of Ukraine and the free democratic world will be decided on the battlefield” is not a slogan anymore. Any support in real-time 24/7, whether it is military or economical, is critical for us.

Pavlo highlighted that many people thought rationally so almost no one believed in a full invasion. They have to understand that Putin already has no red lines: neither rational nor irrational. The Russian dictator understands only the language of force and world leaders should act forcefully toward him:

— Now, we need bold leadership. It is a different kind of leadership that we are used to because Putin only understands force and respects people acting forcefully. If you do not act forcefully, you are rubbish to him. I have met him at many Normandy summits. He is a KGB guy, not a military one. For him, the road ahead is a sequence of special operations and it is dangerous: another special operation could blow up the whole planet. 

Aspen Institute Kyiv launched the #UkrainianDialogue project in cooperation with Aspen Network international partners. Its goal is to create a platform for leadership dialogue between Ukrainians who fight for democratic values and other countries’ representatives that support Ukraine.